Debating the Holocaust

Guy White, as usual, is bashing Nazis and Holocaust Deniers. He spends around 9/10 of his articles attacking people to his right, instead of people to his left. Like usual, I have tried to balance his reporting with comments showing the exact opposite of what he claims. It's unlikely my comment will ever appear on his website, however, so I'll just post it here and people can judge the issue themselves. I think discrediting the Holocaust robs the single most effective anti-racist lie from the enemy's side. Those who support the Holocaust myth are essentially supporting the white race's genocide because whites will never defend themselves so long as they feel guilty of crimes like these. We have been brainwashed to believe that whites are uniquely evil in history and that jews are uniquely victimized. From that vantage point, it is impossible to ever argue that whites are A) good people or that jews are B) bad people. So long as the Holocaust myth is promulgated, whites will be helpless against the rising tide of color. We must defuse this pernicious lie and recover the purity and pride of the white race, the greatest blood libel ever told in history. The road to Vinland goes through Auschwitz:


First, Guy White's post: http://guywhite.wordpress.com/2009/06/21/auschwitz-pool-zyklon-b-and-brothel/

You know who’s lying based on who’s telling the half-truths. People rarely engage in outright lies because they themselves want to think they are being honest. When the truth completely won’t do, people will bring up something irrelevant. (”You stole my money”… “Oh yeah? Well, my grandmother was sick and your grandfather who was her neighbor didn’t help her.”)

On occasion, I get Holocaust denial emails. No, it’s not revisionism, it’s denial. Revisionism would be reviewing some facts, but the emails I get clearly try to prove that the Holocaust is a hoax. You can’t call something a hoax and refuse to admit that you are denying it.

So let’s review the claims:

1. Nazis were so nice that they operated a brothel in Auschwitz.

The claim implies that Hitler pimped Aryan women for the pleasure of Jewish men. The reality was the opposite. The SS and certain “special” inmates, none of whom were Jewish, were allowed to use the forced prostitutes. In fact, these women generally wound up forced to prostitute in the camps for the crime of having sexual relations with Jews in the first place.

Only 1% of Auschwitz inmates were allowed to patronize the brothels, but again, none of them Jewish.

When deniers talk about inmates visiting the brothel, they conveniently forget to mention which inmates were allowed to use it. By and large, these were Aryans who violated some Nazi law (like being a suspected Communist) and got sent to Auschwitz, where they were deemed to have repented and had become useful. It is impossible to believe that Hitler would order the abuse of Aryan women by Jewish men.


2. Auschwitz main camp had a swimming pool.

When deniers say “main camp”, they mean the first camp, which was built by the Polish military as an army base. It was, however, far smaller than the main camp. (And much nicer since it was originally meant to served the soldiers.)

Again, Jews were not allowed to use swimming pools not only in Auschwitz, but anywhere in Germany and German-occupied territories since at least 1938 and in many places since 1935.

The same applies to the Auschwitz movie theater, soccer, etc. Even outside of Auschwitz, Jews were forbidden from playing sports, riding bicycles, playing chess, reading newspapers, having pets, gardening, going to libraries, buying milk/eggs/meat, using the phone or radio, etc. Hitler didn’t forbid all of that everywhere only to build a swimming pool and a soccer field for the Jews. Some inmates were allowed to play, but again, the same rules applied as to the brothel: No Jews, useful native-Europeans only.

3. Jews were treated well.

Himmler:

Even Heinrich Himmler, the head of the dreaded SS and the concentration (extermination) camps, became ill, turned green and almost threw up while watching his men shoot civilians. Himmler decided there must be a more “humane” way of killing. Himmler was not concerned for the victims, helpless Jews, but the mental state of the Nazi soldier.


http://hnn.us/articles/14566.html

And General Eisenhower:

The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they [there] were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”
^ Eisenhower, Dwight D., Dear General: Eisenhower’s Wartime Letters to Marshall, page 223, Johns Hopkins University Press, 1999

4. Fred Leuchter proved that there were no functioning gas chambers.

Leuchter is a fraud and not just when it comes to the Holocaust. For years, he presented himself as an engineer, bidding for government contracts, for which he was prosecuted and convicted. In fact, he had a BA in History, and no training in engineering, biology, chemistry or toxicology.

Leuchter’s thick samples of brick would have greatly diluted the cyanide residue, which forms only an extremely fine layer on the walls and cannot penetrate.

Leuchter brought these samples back to Boston, where he presented them to Alpha Analytical Laboratories, a chemical laboratory, for testing. The lab manager stated that cyanide would have formed an extremely fine layer on the walls, to the depth of one-tenth of a human hair. Leuchter had taken samples of indeterminate thickness (he is seen on film hammering at the bricks with a rock hammer).

The entire sample was pulverized, thus severely diluting the cyanide-containing layer of each sample with an indeterminate amount of brick, varying for each sample. Lab manager later offered the analogy that the tests were like “analyzing paint on a wall by analyzing the timber that’s behind it.

5. Who else examined the gas chambers for poison?

Using proper scientific techniques (you know, the stuff you learn in school if you major in anything but History), Polish scientists found that the evidence points to the existence of cyanide.

6. But there wasn’t enough cyanide in Zyklon B to kill humans, only insects.

“Both toxicological study and practical experience demonstrate that it takes a much higher concentration of cyanide (16,000 parts per million) to kill insects than to kill humans (300 PPM), as well as an exposure time of many hours rather than only minutes.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_A._Leuchter

Additionally, we are talking about an enclosed environment filled with people and with no air coming in. I suggest you try standing in your closet for half an hour while a toxic gas is being pumped into it.

And in any event, the amount of cyanide wasn’t small as Leuchter claimed:

tests conducted on ventilation grates immediately after the end of the war showed substantial amounts of cyanide. The chambers were demolished by the Nazis when they abandoned Auschwitz, and the facilities Leuchter examined were, in fact, partially reconstructed. Leuchter was unaware that part of the camp and chambers were reconstructed, so he had no way of knowing if the bricks he was scraping were actually part of the original gas chamber.


7. Diesel fumes used at Treblinka couldn’t kill.

Diesel fumes can’t kill: In a closed chamber, of course diesel fumes will kill. There was actually a study on this, and its results are reported in “The Toxicity of Fumes from a diesel Engine Under Four Different Running Conditions”, by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p. 47-55. These researchers ran a few experiments in which various animals were exposed to diesel fumes, and studied the results… In all cases, the animals died… Even in cases where the CO output was low, the animals still died from other toxic components – mainly irritants and nitrogen dioxide.
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/holocaust/usa/leuchter/part02/

8. What happened to the ashes of all those millions?

A person leaves just a small box of ashes. You can put the ashes of tens of thousands on one truck. Auschwitz ashes were dumped into the Vistula river.


9. Nazi confessions were coerced. Why would someone admit to a crime?

This is a standard defense against all confessions. In fact, criminals regularly confess to the police, and when not in custody, often brag about their crimes. This ranges from young men bragging about driving home the night before while being drunk/high to Lemrick Nelson bragging at his school that he committed the Crown Heights murder.

People usually want to explain their actions when arrested. Their explanation, however, is also a crime. (I didn’t rape the 12-year-old, she agreed to have sex… I murdered civilians but only because I was taking orders.)

In many cases, they just admit to it. Charles Cullen, for ex., admitted to killing 45 people. See the list of mass murdered here. Many confessed. Should we just disregard it?

Let’s also remember that the Nazis confessed to Americans. While neo-Nazis want to pretend that this country is worse than the Third Reich, it isn’t. This is a very humane country. If you confess to mass murder, child molestation or a similar horrific crime, guess what, you did it, so just shut up. No, you weren’t tortured. At most, you fell for the good/bad cop routine, but if you weren’t guilty, you wouldn’t have admitted to it.

I haven’t seen any pictures of the Nazis looking like they had their legs broken prior to their confessions. The neo-Nazis believe that torture happened because that’s the only explanation they can come up with.

10. There were just as many Jews after the Holocaust as before.

Missing Jews according to an Anglo-American commission:

Numbers of missing Jews (post-war minus pre-war):

Germany – 195,000
Austria – 53,000
Czechoslovakia – 255,000
Denmark – 1,500
France – 140,000
Belgium – 57,000
Luxemburg – 3,000
Norway – 1,000
Holland – 120,000
Italy – 20,000
Jugoslavia – 64,000
Greece – 64,000
Bulgaria – 5,000
Rumania – 530,000
Hungary – 200,000
Poland – 3,271,000
USSR – 1,050,000

Less dispersed refugees (308,000)

Total number of Jews that were exterminated = 5,721,500

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/holocaust/usa/leuchter/part02/

11. Jews are lying to defame Germans.

Germany was the Jews’ best friend before Hitler and after. In return, the Jews called themselves Ashkenazis, meaning Germans. They spoke a dialect of German (Yiddish). They still think schnitzel is traditional Jewish food. They have German names like Goldman, and even Berlin and Deutsch.

If Jews were to pick someone to defame, it might be France (Dreyfus Affair), Spain (Inquisition), Soviet Union (anti-Jewish purges in the 1930s and then again in the early 1950s) or better yet, the Arabs, considering their plans to establish the Jewish state in the Middle East.

12. Israel benefited from Holocaust claims.

West Germany did help Israel by giving it money, military and fake documents for Israeli spies. When this became known, most Israelis, left and right, strongly opposed any dealings with Germany.

Additionally, the claim was based not as reparation for the murder of Jews, but having to resettle them in Israel. Using this logic, the more Jews settled in Israel, the more money the Jewish state would get.

Thus, it was in Israel’s best interest to claim that more Jews survived and demand money for resettling them in Israel. It was, therefore, in Israel’s best interest to claim that fewer Jews died.


13. Germany was forced to help Israel because of the Holocaust lie.

Maybe, but what explains Germany helping the Jews prior to Hitler? What explains that East Germany was anti-Israel if Holocaust automatically means support for Israel?

Other Western countries also helped Israel: US being the most prominent example, but also France in the early days, as well as smaller countries like Australia, Denmark and (in the early days) Czechoslovakia.

Considering that West Germany wanted to prove its use to the Western bloc because it was on the front lines against communism and was the main beneficiary of NATO agreements, it might have wanted to show support a Western outpost in the Middle East as a sign that it’s not just using the Western bloc for its own benefit. Likewise, East Germany wanted to prove its worth to the Communist Bloc and, therefore, became the most anti-Israel country in Europe.

In any event, Germany was far too powerful to just submit to a Jewish state with half a million inhabitants.

14. Israel was established as a result of the Holocaust, which is why the lie was invented.

The League of Nations already voted to establish a Jewish state prior to Hitler coming to power. The Olympic Committee and World Federation of Soccer admitted Israel prior to Hitler. Jewish paramilitary and intelligence service in Israel was established prior to Hitler. The Belfour Declaration was issued prior to Hitler.

Zionism was almost 40 years old prior to Hitler. The Holocaust was used as yet another reason, but Israel was well on its way to getting independence when Hitler came to power in Germany.

15. The Holocaust is Soviet lie.

Holocaust was hidden from public view in the Communist bloc. See, for example, this censored story about Babi Yar.

The Black Book, which documented the Holocaust (by Russian military journalists), was suppressed and then destroyed.

There was no Holocaust education in Eastern Europe. The only East Europeans who knew about it were those who actually saw it.

Most importantly, Moscow actually forbade East Germany from paying any reparations to the Jews or even acknowledging their concerns about the Holocaust.

Post-WWII, the Soviet Union was also very hostile to Zionism, Israel and even Russian Jews, as evidenced by the Doctor’s Plot, the Night of Murdered Poets, Show Trials of the Jewish anti-Fascist Committee, and Stalin’s desire to deport the Jews right before he died.

Conspiracy theories about the Soviet Union being run by Jews even after the 1920s are false, and all research suggests that Soviet Russia was not sympathetic to Jews, in general, and Holocaust victims, in particular.

16. The Western allies wanted to put the screws on the poor Germans.

Unlikely. As soon as WWII was over, the Cold War began and Germany was the most important country in the conflict. Certainly, Germany was far more important than Israel.

Many remember the “Ich bin ein Berliner” speech by JFK and “Mr. Gorbachev, Tear Down this Wall” by Ronald Reagan.

Western countries airlifted supplies into West Berlin. They could’ve abandoned West Germans to live no better than East Germans, but didn’t because Germany was vital to Western interests.

Furthermore, while NATO was meant to defend Western Europe in general, certainly Germany was in more danger and was a more immediate concern than Ireland or Portugal.

17. How do we know the exact number of dead Jews?

We don’t. The proper estimates say 5-7 million, with 6 million as the middle number. This includes those who died as a result of WWII (as soldiers or in bombing raids), not just the Holocaust. Legitimate scientists constantly engage in revisionism of those numbers and various other aspects of the Holocaust, just as people do with all wars, revolutions and major natural disasters.

18. Many people died during WWII, that doesn’t mean that they were targeted.

This is where it’s good to define the term “many”. In Poland, 6% of Catholics died and 90% of Jews. Very few people died in the Netherlands, but 75% of the Jews did. Sounds like targeting to me.

19. But others also died in concentration camps.

No doubt about that. Three million Soviet POWs being the most prominent example. That millions of others also died in concentration camps actually proves that these weren’t some vacation homes with swimming pools and brothels. But like I just said, there’s a difference between losing 6% and 90%.

20. So how come deniers believe what they believe?

I haven’t met any deniers who don’t have an obsession with Jews. They read their own stories on each other’s blogs and believe that all the information that doesn’t begin with the idea that there’s an all-encompassing Jewish conspiracy must be the product of the very Jewish conspiracy that they are afraid of.

They take partial facts (Auschwitz had a pool!) and don’t mention the rest of the information (Jews weren’t allowed to use it).

They cite “studies” by people with no expertise in the field, but consider them reliable (and beyond any criticism) only because they drew the conclusions they want.

There’s an answer to all denial claims which can be found with a simple google search.

But the deniers want proof that is so far beyond a reasonable doubt that it’s just disingenuous. It reminds me of Dave Schappell’s bit that the only way he’d ever find O.J. guilty of killing a white woman is if he was caught on video tape killing her, while holding 3 forms of ID and with Schappell’s grandmother standing right there stating that this is, in fact, O.J. Simpson.

For ex., this is a picture of bodies being burned in Auschwitz right in front of everyone after one of the crematoria was destroyed. We can’t tell from a picture how these people died, of course, nor if they were the only ones dead.

But it happens to be right after a crematorium was blown up. And it does show a large number of dead. We can use it together with German documents on their mass murder. But those documents are forgeries, according to the deniers. (They don’t mention why they believe these documents are forged other than “Jews are evil and sneaky”… but what about the evidence itself?)

There’s eye-witness testimony, but all Jews (and Russian POWs, Gypsies, Poles, etc) are liars.

There’re confessions, but those were beaten out of the poor saintly Nazis.

There are gas chambers and crematoria, but those are fakes built after the war.

There are locals, some of whom worked in the camps, but they know nothing.

Any time you want to presume that any possible explanation is the actual explanation in your case, you can always think of something.

No, you didn’t rape the 5-year-old, she just accidentally found your condom and put your semen into herself. The vaginal injuries? That’s caused by her falling while her legs were spread. Her description of sex at such an early age? She accidentally once briefly watched pornography. She said you did it? Children don’t understand anything. See, if you want to come up with an explanation and be willfully blind to reality, you can always do so, especially when your only sources of information are blogs by people who think just like you.

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Next, my step by step reply:


1-2: I'm fairly certain we have records of jewish soccer leagues playing on those fields. In any event, it's trivial.

3: As for the Himmler quote: If that document is accurate, it doesn't matter as the quote says "shooting" innocent civilians, not mass gassings.

As for the Eisenhower quote: He's discussing Orff/Buchenwald, a concentration camp where no one was gassed, the people who died there were natural deaths due to disease. The allies supposedly didn't liberate a single death camp or any camp that used poison gas according to the court historians. Therefore no proof or accounts provided by the allies says anything about the Holocaust. All the death camps that used poison gas, supposedly, were in Soviet liberated zones.

4: Leuchter is only one of many people who took samples and did studies. You single him out and then pretend no other evidence exists pointing towards the same result -- no serious cyanide residues remain. Why not look at the followup reports by Rudolf and others?

5: The polish study actually backs up the Holocaust 'Denialist' position. They achieved the same low cyanide residues, then spun the data to reach the conclusion they desired. Supposedly, most of the cyanide has somehow 'worn away' in the last few decades so the tiny amount of cyanide remaining is proof of massive cyanide residues that 'must have been there' in the past. No explanation for why these high cyanide residues at the disinfestation areas have not suffered similar 'erosion' or 'wearing away.' Hell, some disinfestation buildings are still bright blue on the exterior, facing the maximum amount of erosion, with the stains that don't exist at the inside of the supposed 'gas chamber.' The Polish spin on their data therefore does not hold water.

6: No responsible Holocaust Revisionist says Cyanide can't kill humans. The question is whether it was used to kill humans, or simply as a disinfestation device.

7: The question isn't whether Diesel fumes 'can' kill. It's of course technically possible. The question is why would the Germans resort to the least lethal engine possible, something that would take tremendous effort to pull off, when both normal gasoline engines and wood-gas engines are tremendously more effective? German efficiency would never resort to diesel engines, it's ridiculous if you study the issue for ten seconds. By the way, since everyone who died in the 'death' camps outside of Aushwitz supposedly died due to diesel engine gassing, this is the most important question in the entire Holocaust and the fate of millions of jews (dead or alive) hangs on this question. Disproving the diesel engine myth = disproving the entire Holocaust, essentially.

8: The more important question is : what happened to the teeth? Can teeth be turned to ash? And more importantly, what happened to the mass graves? According to the eye-witnesses, the jews were first buried in mass graves, and then only later dug up and burnt to ash. ((In ways that defy the laws of physics, like dousing a body in gasoline and setting it on fire, and then assuming the body will subsequently turn to ash rather than get a little crispy around the edges)). The mass graves will still exist, in the form of disturbed soil layers that do not match the dirt around it. Anyone who wanted could check for these mass graves by digging them up, or using various sound equipment. If you want to prove the Holocaust, all you have to do is find the mass graves that temporarily stored the millions of jews at Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. Why haven't these graves been found? Why haven't they even been investigated?

9: Germans were tortured into confessing, even according to the interrogators themselves: http://www.rense.com/general68/hoss.htm Your objections are not scientific and besides the point -- "I don't see signs of torture so there clearly wasn't any." ???? By the way, Hoess confessed to crimes no one even believes anymore. For instance, Hoess says he gassed 2.5 million jews at Auschwitz, however, the court historians have already revised that count down to a million. The established history of the Holocaust already rejects Hoess' testimony as a bunch of baloney. Why would Hoess confess to a lie unless he were tortured? For the fun of it?

10: Why narrow in on that census? How is that the final word, instead of some other census that establishes hardly any jews died in the Holocaust?

http://christianparty.net/holocaust.htm

"American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 1939 -- 15,600,000

World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population -- 15,319,359

World Almanac, 1941, pg. 510: World Jewish Population -- 15,748,091

World Almanac, 1942, pg. 849: World Jewish Population -- 15,192,089 ("Jews include Jews by race not necessarily by religion")

World Almanac USA, 1947, pg. 748: World Jewish Population -- 15,690,000

World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population -- 15,713,638"

11: Jews were lying to defame anti-semites, racists, and the white race in general. You say they would have no motivation to prevent another Hitler rising to power, but obviously that's false. If racist anti-semite whites ever came to power, the jewish hegemony in banks, media, colleges etc would all come crashing down. There's an obvious motive to discredit the racist anti-semitic stance of Hitler's Germany by inventing horror stories about it.

12: Of course Israel benefited from the Holocaust. It's self-evident the sympathy and reparations (that are still being paid out today, hardly a one-time moving cost now was it?) helped establish the Israeli state and gain Western support it in all its wars against the Arabs.

13: Hitler supported Israel for the same reason all sensible people support Israel -- the more jews that are in Israel, the less are in Germany! There is no conflict between anti-semitism and zionism. They actually fit quite well together, both want all the jews out of the diaspora.

14: The Holocaust was invented to prevent anti-semitism and increase white guilt and hatred of whites, not for Israel's sake. (Though Israel benefited.) This is mainly for the benefit of Diaspora jews who would still suffer from a rise in anti-semitism among whites, not for Israel's sake. Isn't this obvious?

15: Nothing you point out conflicts with the idea that the soviets found the Holcoaust to be useful wartime propaganda. The fact that they'd bury the information later doesn't change the fact that they heavily promoted it earlier. Furthermore, jews are partially if not largely responsible for the Holodomor, which occurred in 1932-1933. http://desip.igc.org/HolocaustAndHolodomor.html

"Some Ukrainian accounts, and that of Muggeridge, who covered the holodomor for the Manchester Guardian, take the trouble to say that this mass starvation was imposed largely by Jews. Lazar M. Kaganovich is often identified as an architect of the policy. A photograph in Montefiore, Red Tsar, above, shows him personally searching a farm for concealed food."

Jews continued to terrorize Russia and rule the Eastern European occupied states well into the 1950's.

16: It's documented in books like After the Reich (responsible historians, hardly holocaust denial literature) that the Allies were responsible for the death of maybe a million Germans AFTER WWII ended due to insanely harsh prison camps. The Allies were merciless towards Germany during and after the war and no speech by JFK can alter this historical fact. The Allies also promoted the Holocaust as wartime propaganda and the Holocaust is a victim to the truism: "Only the victors write the history books." It was all done to make Germans look evil and the Allies look heroic, there was never any interest in truth or fairness.

17: Who defines legitimate? Holocaust Revisionists use honest facts to arrive at a 'Holocaust' of 300,000 to 1 million jews who died in the camps. These facts include censuses, the death count records the Nazis kept of their own camps, the technical feasibility of the crematorium, etc. Counting jews who died during the war as part of a genocide of jewish civilians is ridiculous, why not say the Holocaust includes 30 million dead Russians as well, if wartime losses count? But even lumping in every last jew you could find who died of any cause, it will never reach 5 million.

18: No comment, except I'm sure these facts are fabricated given they conflict with what we actually know about the Holocaust.

19: Same as above, I don't believe that 90% number.

20: There are zero, Zero documents of any nazi mass murdering of jews. The Gerstein report is a fraud. Most court historians have already admitted there is no documentation and no physical evidence left of the Holocaust -- they say it has all been covered up or destroyed. The simpler explanation is it never existed in the first place.

The 'gas chamber' at Auschwitz is admitted by the head of the Auschwitz museum to be a 'reconstruction.' He admitted it on tape to David Cole. You can watch it yourself. http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

What is more likely? Six million jews were diabolically murdered by diesel engines, the worst possible engine for the job, and magical zyklone B gas that leaves no residues when it kills humans but leaves massive residues when used as a lice killing agent, then buried in magical pits that we have never discovered since, then exhumed and burnt with magical fuel that destroyed millions of bodies in the open air to complete ash including the teeth with just some gasoline and a match ((crematoria exist for a reason, it's because bodies don't naturally burn to ash in the open air)) -- or that a million jews died due to natural causes inside German concentration camps during a particularly brutal war? The court historians already admit NO jews were gassed in any camp liberated by the allies, every single jew who died in the Allied liberated zone died due to natural causes. All gassed jews were supposedly in Soviet-liberated zones. Is this just some massive coincidence? If the Soviets lied about the camps they liberated, the entire Holocaust disappears. On this slender thread hangs the ENTIRE Holocaust.

You don't believe lots of people would lie about the Holocaust, but you're willing to believe everyone is lying about the non-existence of racial gaps in IQ. Since it's obviously possible for a giant conspiracy of people to lie about racial IQ gaps, why not the Holocaust, or anything else that supports the PC agenda? In the end it isn't the number of people who believe something that makes something true. No matter how many 'legitimate' psychometricians discover there are no gaps in racial IQ, or how widespread the belief in egalitarianism becomes, the truth will remain that IQ is genetic and varies between the races. The same is true in any other field.